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Rich, you are arguing at a brick wall. I'm a Florida cave diver, and I've had it up to here (I'm holding my hand palm down, in front of me at the level of the top of my head) with the DIR crowd. If you think you know how they can be, try cave diving in Florida and breathing off the short hose (you know, the normal way). They'll stand around their car (excuse me, their white van, it has to be a white van) and talk about how you obviously don't know how to cave dive, because you aren't Doing It Right. My instructor doesn't know how to dive, let alone teach. Notwithstanding the fact that he was cave diving when they were in diapers, and he was one of Sheck Exley's favorite dive buddies.Here's some feedback from one of the Certification agencies (Name withheld), I sent an email there & here is part of the responses from multiple emails:The best way to distinguish the DIR folks from the rest of the world is to read their posts. If someone seems to be able to write above the sixth grade level, they're not DIR. (Read a lot of their posts; I can't believe they don't know how to use a spellcheck.)
Just between you and me, right?
My point is, the most important thing I have learned in fifteen years of diving is to ignore the DIR crowd.
P.S. Do you think I'm joking about the white van?
"DIR and GUE. For recreational diving [Agency withheld] advocates the configuration you're used to diving - with a readily accessible alternate air source. We also encourage divers to follow the manufacturer's guidelines. As far as which hose to donate (your primary vs. your alternate) that depends on the configuration. If you're diving a Scubapro Air II, you'd donate your primary and place the Air II in your mouth. If you don't have an inflator mounted alternate you generally donate your alternate and retain your primary.I don't understand why this gets people on the various message boards all emotional, it shouldn't be. The idea here should be to let these people who want to do a more technical style of diving, do their own thing. I do understand that sometimes they are very critical of others, I hear that a lot, but this is not what recreational diving is about. In Laguna, we need to worry about surf zones, surge, VIZ & eco matters, we really don't have an "Overhead environment" or deco diving to worry about. But if they want to "Do their own thing", then let them. Let's not start pointing fingers about who is right vs wrong, we are all here to have fun diving. Let's just keep it safe, and include everyone. My apologies got out to one in our group, who most likely doesn't appreciate my views on this matter.Breathing the "long" hose, donating your primary and using a shorter hose for an alternate is the community standard for technical and cave diving. For [some] our programs we advocate a long hose configuration. (note - this is NOT a recreational program and involves decompression diving to a depth of 165ft.) In an out of air situation in cave diving the long hose also needs to be long enough for the buddy team to swim nose to tail out of the cave. Hence 7ft.
In technical and cave diving equipment configuration becomes more important because you don't have direct access to the surface like in recreational diving. (Overhead environment - cave or deco stops required) Sine this is the case the error chain leading to an accident can be quite short and consistent configuration allows the diver or his teammate to respond immediately the situation."
"...not to worried about DIR catching on. While GUE has it's loyal following amongst some of the tech community, they are far from mainstream. Most folks haven't a clue who they are. Certainly some of the principles are [from] very accomplished divers and I'm not minimizing their abilities, but your club's philosophy is EXACTLY what the diving industry needs. Inclusion not exclusion! Good on you guys!..."
Remember that I said I would post responses, well here is a response from the Unilever Corporation about my views on the Faroe Islands "Grind":
Dear Mr ParkerCheck out this response to my opinions about the Mako Shark in the Vagas Newsletter (Chubasco):Please find below some information about the issue of the whaling practices of the local population on the Faroe Islands. We do understand and share your concern. But Unilever does not intend to make any public or political statement about issues which are not directly or indirectly linked to its business, which is the case in respect to whaling. Unilever has no involvement in the processing of whales nor in the selling of any whale products. Nevertheless, we would like to inform you as follows:
Unilever has asked its fish suppliers on the Faroe Islands to confirm they are not involved in, and not supportive to, any annual whale hunt, slaughter or distribution of whales or whale products.
Unilever buys a limited volume of frozen white fish blocks (saithe and cod) from the Faroe Islands. The fish is landed from fresh-fish trawlers and is processed locally. The amount of fish bought by Unilever from the Faroe Islands is equivalent to 1.5% of total annual Faroe Islands catches. This fish is landed by fresh-fish trawlers that have no whaling capability, and the fishermen and processors from whom Unilever buys do not engage in the annual whale slaughter.
Unilever’s Fish Sustainability Initiative
Unrelated to your request about whaling, we would like to inform you about an initiative that our fish business has taken to encourage sustainable fishing.
Unilever has recognised for some years the need for a shift in the management of natural resources towards conservation and sustainability. This has led to action plans in several parts of our business, focusing on fish, water and agriculture. With respect to its fish business, Unilever has pledged to source all its fish from sustainable fisheries by 2005 and has embarked on a phased implementation programme in its fish supply chain to meet this commitment. In 1996 Unilever and WWF co-founded the Marine Stewardship Council, an independent, non-profit non-governmental organisation with a set of principles and criteria aimed at encouraging sustainable fishing. The MSC has built up a broad base of support and set important milestones, such as a global standard for sustainable fishing. The MSC logo is the result of an independent certification scheme which creates market incentives for sustainable fishing by bringing consumer choice into the equation. Two fisheries - Thames Herring in the UK and Australian Rock Lobster - were the first to achieve MSC certification this year, and products from these fisheries now carry the MSC logo. More fisheries are expected to follow.
Unilever will, through its usual partnership and dialogue approach, continue to encourage sustainable fishing. Unilever also runs programmes to encourage sustainable agriculture and the responsible use of water. You can find further information about these programmes on http://www.unilever.com. We hope this has helped to make the situation clearer to you, but please let us know if you require any more information.
Kind regards,
Corporate Relations Department Unilever
Hi Rich,Finally, someone who understood that article I wrote. Remember, I will post responses.... Thanks for your support...
I sent a long rant into the board supporting your stance on killing brood stock shortly after you posted your message re: The large Mako.My message was deleted so I sent another one which met the same fate. After looking back over the posts on the bulletin board and reading the comments made by Roger about other incidents I am following your lead.
The Vags will no longer have my support. By support I mean money. Roger is an officer of the organization and as so his attitude reflects the direction of the club. Not my kind of people.
Best Wishes, Juan
And check out this response to my opinions about Lobstering:
It is the whalers "job" to kill whales, it is the fisherman's "job" to kill Dolphins, Sharks and Turtles, it is a farmers "job" to kill Wolves, it is the cruise ships "job" to park ships on top of pristine and delicate reefs, it is some peoples "JOB" to steal cars. Don't make it right, even if protected by a law system that is at best 50 years behind.Right on John!! Remember, I will post anything....I have to disagree with you that thinking man should wait until there is some profit in it for the legislators who may then take little or no action way too late. You are sadly mistaken if you think as a citizen your "word" is heard. Legislators only toss the people a bone now and then to quiet down the annoyance from time to time. Only $$$$ is spoken in politics.
I know that you do realize that even with complete and total support from the community it would take 5 years to get even the smallest change to a law and "industry" has far more clout than any citizen group. They won;t just be sitting there waiting for you to close them down. The real way is not to confront or antagonize but to make it NOT PROFITABLE to do that business in that place.
No, destruction of their equipment is NOT the way but releasing trapped critters does work. I do not mean a vendetta or scheme to go out and release every lobster you see but the occasional freeing of a critter here and there will make a lot more difference than hoping corrupt and selfish legislators will choose your wish over a new Mercedes or a swimming pool in the yard of his new house.
I am not suggesting a plan of action here, just sharing a reality check here. In fact I have released only three lobsters in my entire life and usually just pass the traps by. I do agree whole heartedly that untangling line from the reef is a priority if we see it is going to do damage. If you see the line is too long and will tangle again, a slip knot may help take up the slack and will come undone when they retreive the trap.
BOTTOM LINE: The fact is that no species has a chance of survival (well cockroaches and ants maybe) as long as Human population continues unchecked so just ejoy what there is while you can and hope the worlds Idiots can stop spawning litters of ignorant trash. Free, not legislated, birth control for those that wish it and resticting fertility clinics as they presently do with birth control facilities.
John B DiveQRoo@aol
AKA: CABODIVERS@aol
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